Interview with Ricardo Alvarado

Interview with Hope McIntyre and Ricardo Alvarado

Hope So let’s start with the first question. How long have you been in your current position?

Ricardo As the stage manager? This is my second year, but as an assistant stage manager, it was more like five years. And I’ve been doing theatre for 20 years.

Hope Yeah. And you’re like a stage manager in residence there at Persephone. Is that how it they are working it?

Ricardo Essentially, yeah. Like I’m doing the season so I do all the mainstage shows.

Hope Wow that’s, that’s amazing right, to have that stability, eh?

Ricardo It is really nice. Yeah.

Hope The next question is about your pathway into that position. So, you know how you came, whether it was through training or through experience, like how you ended up there.

Ricardo Yeah. I trained at the University of Saskatchewan as an actor and so that was a long time ago. And I actually never even took the stage management class, which is funny, but I have, I’m a visual artist as well. So, I kind of came to theatre in many different ways. So, acting, directing, designing arms, all, all of those kinds of things. And so, I quit theatre for a while, stopped doing it and did managing retail. So I managed some bars and some clothing stores for a long time. And then of course, it creeps back. So I started doing theatre again and I found my passion for stage management, especially having done a myriad of roles in the theatre. I think that it kind of was a good place for me, so I kind of fell upon it, I guess, and began my apprenticeship at Persephone. And then I’ve worked with most of the theatre companies in the city now, and I do regularly, so.

Hope Amazing. Yes, I also went to U of S, but many years ago. That is great. And is there anything that you attribute to, to your success and success being, like, just working regularly, right?

Ricardo Yeah. Um. I think that… It has a lot to do with being in the right place at the right time and being personable. Making relationships is kind of the best way. Like I just am surprised sometimes how many offers come your way just by someone knows someone knows someone. And so, I also think that having skills in many different sections is really good for a stage manager. So that’s been really helpful to me.

Hope Absolutely. Yeah. And in terms of like anything that you kind of wish you’d have known before, like when you think back to the training you did, which obviously was in a different area, which is exciting because I think what we’re learning is not everyone goes through a direct pathway to things, but when you look back, is there anything you wish you had learned or known before you entered the industry?

Ricardo Yeah, I think that I wish…, I think that when I went to school, it was very much trying to mold yourself into what their vision of a theatre artist is. And I don’t find that to be in any way realistic. So I wish that back then that I would have had the confidence to just kind of chart my own path more directly and stuck to my guns a little bit more because I think that, what you bring as yourself to the team is pretty important in any role in theatre, especially nowadays. People are really looking for authenticity and uniqueness and all of those things. And so being able to confidently know what you bring to the table I think would have been really helpful. It took a long time to figure that out, but I think that the conversations are changing and that’s really important.

Hope Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, that’s great. I’m hearing that more and more from, from folks like they want to see what people, who people are as opposed to just their skills. And is there, could have been a gap that you noticed, I don’t know like if you’re working with other apprentices or ASMs that are coming into this as emerging theatre workers and, and whether there’s any gaps or deficits or things you noticed or missing.

Ricardo I find that particularly as a stage manager, so much of it is learn as you go and every show presents a whole new skill set, but you need to figure out in three weeks. And so, I think that people need to be a little bit more ready to fly by the seat of their pants, I guess, and just are ready to figure it out as you go and accept that you may not have all the answers and that that’s totally okay, especially as a stage manager. There’s so much stress that you be the person in charge and you know what’s going on at all times. But there’s definitely days where you have no idea how to fix the problem yet, but you will figure it out. So, you deserve just as much grace as everyone else on the team. So yeah, that’s something that I find a lot of new stage managers, they haven’t really given themself that grace yet.

Hope Yeah, absolutely. And just interested to know, do you think that’s more so the case like the flexibility part more so the case now after the last few years or just regularly that need to be flexible.

Ricardo Probably regularly but especially now for sure there’s a whole new thing with all the COVID regulations and all of those kinds of things that again, is making it up as you go, because even the theatre doesn’t necessarily have all the answers yet. So. they kind of turn to you when you’re not necessarily the person in charge of COVID, but you seem to be the most important one there to take charge.

Hope It certainly added something to stage manager’s plates, eh?

Ricardo  Yeah.

Hope Is there anything that you feel that universities, post-secondary training could do to better prepare theatre workers?

Ricardo  I guess like, design apprenticeships and, and SM apprenticeships while in school would be something I think that you would benefit from a lot. I don’t necessarily agree with the apprenticeship program through Equity the way that it works at the moment. I don’t think it’s necessarily fair and I think that a lot of that information could be gained while you’re still in school, so… Yeah, that would be interesting.

Hope Some more pairing with professional folks.

Ricardo Yeah, I see it a lot in the design sections. Like, I’ll see a design students come in and be mentoring, but I haven’t seen that with stage management. But we also don’t have a huge stage management department at the U of S, so it’s not like there’s a lot of people coming out of it.

Hope Sure. Yeah. That’s great. And in terms of your experience, how does one secure work as a stage manager and you have talked about word of mouth, but is there other things that students should be aware of when they want to enter this field?

Ricardo Yeah. I found social media has been really helpful. There’s Facebook groups and all kinds of things where any question you can think of, someone else has come up with the same problem. And so you can often find answers, but also build relationships with people that you would never have got to meet. And so, I’ve met people talking online that are from Toronto or Vancouver, and then all of a sudden, a gig comes up and they’re like, I know somebody. And so that’s been really beneficial and really just sending out your resume and making those calls and then actually staying with it and kind of building that relationship instead of just applying and disappearing.

Hope That follow up piece.

Ricardo Yeah, and luckily right now it seems that stage managers are just in crazy demand. So in terms of finding work, it’s kind of overwhelming how many people need a stage manager at the moment. So luckily that has not been an issue this year, but I don’t know how long that will last. We’ll see, hopefully.

Hope No, you’re right. It’s we’re always here too, in Winnipeg. It’s like our students get scooped up right out of the program into ASM-ing, apprenticing at the big stages. It’s like, yeah, there’s such a need.

Ricardo Yeah.

Hope Yeah. And then in terms of specifics about like. So, you mentioned a resume. Is there anything else? So, this is an interesting question for stage management side in terms of like a portfolio or, or what can you prepare to kind of offer as a way to prove yourself?

Ricardo Yeah, it’s tricky. I I’ve started looking at building a website which I don’t have yet, but I think that I see a lot more of it. So having a website as opposed to a portfolio, but with links to pictures of shows you’ve worked on, pictures of your paperwork, pictures of you, all that stuff, your resume, your bio is a really good way to kind of present yourself in one stroke. But I haven’t, I’ve found that I’ve been getting work without having that. So, so far it hasn’t been an issue. But I definitely think that it’s something that is beneficial.

Hope Excellent. Yeah. And if you were hiring, like an apprentice or an ASM, you know, what would you look for in those collaborators?

Ricardo I get excited by people who get excited about things. So, I look for people who are passionate about it, who aren’t afraid to ask questions. I also look for a bit of a sense of humour. You spend a lot of time with those people, and so getting that personal relationship with them becomes really close between you and your apprenticeships and all of that stuff. So, I just look for somebody who’s not too stuck in playing by the rules, I guess.

Hope That’s great. Yeah. Yeah. And are there any resources that you would recommend to students who are emerging into this field and are struggling to get their start?

Ricardo Um, I did the, like, go on Amazon and buy all the SM books. I’ve read them all. I’ve also read lots of books on directing and things like that, and I find that it’s been really helpful. I’ve been looking into intimacy coaching. I read a book about it, took a session and some anti-racism training. All of those kinds of things I think are really beneficial to a stage manager, because it gets tricky in the room sometimes when you’re in charge of people’s feelings and things. And once the director leaves, especially something like intimacy, it’s really helpful to have the vocabulary that they’re using so that you can continue it on. So, I think that the more of those outside things that you can bring in as well as like first aid training, mental health aid training, all of that I think is something that really sets you apart from other stage managers that don’t have that.

Hope Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And any advice for those who are leaving, training and entering the profession? Is there any words of wisdom you’d want to share?

Ricardo I would say learn how to budget. It’s really interesting being a gig worker essentially, and I guess so this is my, as I said, second year of full-time stage managing, and it’s hard to say no to things. And so, you end up being very overwhelmed. But at a certain point, I think that the goal would be to be able to take a month or two off and not have to say yes to a contract. But that’s tricky when you’re used to living paycheck to paycheck or whatever it is, as well as just wanting to help everybody and do every experience. So, I think that learning how to not burn yourself out is a really important skill for stage managers. And, when I talk to older stage managers and someone who’s mentored me, I can see that they don’t have all the answers either. And so, it’s something that I think a younger generation is learning. And so, it’s hard as the stage manager who’s the first person in and the last person out, and you’re always working on your days off, to remember that you need time to rest and breathe as well so that you can bring the best energy to the room. So, I think that that’s something to try and learn before you go into it, I think is probably helpful.

Hope  Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And you kind of segue into that self-employed kind of area of questions as well, because I think that is one of the things that my students are often not prepared for is being their own little business, right? Other than budget, are there other challenges that you found in kind of managing yourself as your own independent business?

Ricardo  And I think that personally it’s been really beneficial also that I do work in different areas of theatre. So, like I’m the artistic producer for some theatres, so I do a lot of their financing and all of that kind of stuff. But then I also have my own theatre company that I’m a director and a designer, and I’ve worked with other groups in different ways. And so, as an independent artist, all of those things definitely help build your little nest and also like well-rounded as an artist. And so, being able to do different things I think gives you way more opportunities as opposed to just being focused on one thing. And I see that a lot with all of my peers, like everyone is an actor and a designer and a director, and it’s really nice to collaborate with people like that.

Hope Absolutely. Yeah. And you brought up saying no. When, when should you say no to the gig?

Ricardo Yeah. I think that you have to trust your gut. I think that a lot of times there may be some red flags, but you don’t really know until you’re in it. But I do believe in, in finishing what you agreed to do, but being firm in what you need, I think, is important. And then to know that you don’t have to go back to an experience that isn’t working for you, but also maybe you can bring something different to that energy, to that room. So yeah, I luckily haven’t had any bad experiences like that, but I definitely know lots of people who have. So, I think that when you get that feeling, it’s just not right for you. So. there’s a million other places you can be that will be more beneficial.

Hope Absolutely. And because you also wear hats as a producer, running your own company, like, do you feel that self-producing is, is a good way for emerging artists to get the experience and visibility? Like if they’ve got nothing on their resume, is it?

Ricardo Yeah, I do think so. I think that nothing teaches you more than mounting your own show, like it’s such a great experience. For me, I just find it tricky because it doesn’t necessarily pay the bills, so it’s hard to say I’m going to spend a month working on my own show and then make 500 bucks at the end of it and hope for some funding or whatever. But, I think that the skills that you learn in that are super valuable when it comes to working in a professional setting as well. So, I think most of the artists that I look up to definitely do a lot of their independent work as well. And I think that that really adds to the community and adds to them as an artist.

Hope Absolutely. And you’re in that unique position of now also having kind of been an employee. You’re an employee and self-employed. Any thoughts on, you know, one over the other?

Ricardo Um. Yeah. Being a stage manager is interesting too, because technically you’re an employee, but you’re also a gig employee. And so, you always fall in this crack. And so, you’re not really part of the admin staff and you’re not part of the temp staff. So, it’s ah, it’s an odd place to be sometimes, but it is nice to have a little bit of steadiness. So, I didn’t expect that to happen. And so, if you can have that, that’s really wonderful. But independently, I think it’s just, I don’t know. I’ve learned so much and made so many great connections by being an independent artist. And I really think that I’m happy being somewhere in the middle of those two things.

Hope Absolutely. Yeah. No, I remember when CRA, CRA was making a big thing about SMs and whether there are, you know, all of that stuff. So, it’s you’re right, it is a weird in-between.

Ricardo Yeah, totally.

Hope And then I think on the operational side of a theatre, like now that you’re working at a specific theatre, I think a lot of our students just struggle with understanding how theatres are organized, their structure, like the reality of that. Is there anything that you feel theatre students should know about how a theatre operates?

Ricardo I guess I… I think that young people are really changing the way that the theatre operates. And things in the last couple of years have really shaken up. And there’s a much more relaxed feeling to it. And all the work gets done. But it doesn’t have to be so serious all the time. And so, I think that remembering that you are a person and all of these people have so many great qualities that may not be on their resume. And so being able to come in and have a real conversation and not stress too much about everything being perfect, I think has really been a good opportunity for the theatre to really grow and to embrace diversity in a really like honest way as opposed to forcing it to happen. And so, I think for new people, you come in and you’re just trying to find all the walls that you need to put on your box. But I just find – like break the box down and just bring your energy. I love seeing the way that young people communicate in a rehearsal room, as opposed to the older people who’ve been doing it forever. It’s just such a natural way of calling things out and not in a bad way, but just, just this is how it is. I’m seeing something, I’m going to say something and we’re going to talk about it and we’re going to move on and everything’s fine. So, I really respect that. And I think that they should be confident in bringing their voice to the room because they have something to say.

Hope Absolutely. In terms of like challenges, because I think sometimes, and I always find this as I’m teaching my students about the business of theatre, it’s like we teach them the way it has been for so long or the way it’s changing. And then connected to that, how much do we give them in terms of what the challenges and realities are like, the economic challenges and so forth? So, anything that you feel they should be aware of that that is a challenge in keeping theatre running in Canada right now.

Ricardo Yeah, I think that it’s really easy to get taken advantage of sometimes, and I don’t think that people in positions of power in theatres necessarily do it on purpose, but I find that the stage manager often has to take on responsibilities that A, probably aren’t their duty but B, you just don’t have enough time to do everything. And so, like I said, being the first person and the last person and all of that, it’s like being able to delegate and being able to stand up and say, you know, I don’t have time for that or that it really isn’t my job. I’m going to need someone to take care of that. There’s nothing wrong with that. And there’s nothing wrong with saying, my plate’s full. But I think that as a stage manager especially, I see so many people that think they have to do everything and then they get so worn out, you can just see it and it’s not fair. So, I think, yeah, that’s something really important, I think, for people going into professional theatre.

Hope Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And, and there’s been a long conversation around board structures and how our companies in Canada are reliant on this not for profit / charitable structure. Do you have any thoughts about that relationship with the board and the theatre company?

Ricardo Yeah. Um. I’ve seen artistic producers who want the board to have nothing to do with anything, and they want them to stay in their room. And then I’ve seen other ones that bring them into rehearsals and they’re everywhere. And I really think that if you’ve got a board, you should make use of them and welcome them into the family. And so, it’s not just them in a room making decisions, but that they have a better understanding of the actual working. I think that’s really important.

Hope Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And then in terms of stage management specifically, are there key things that you need to do in order to ensure a director that they will want to work with you again? Like, what are the, the qualities that you feel make for a strong stage manager?

Ricardo Yeah. I always say that I try to bring some big mom energy to the room all the time, and I find that people are always surprised working with me because I’m typically a happy go lucky guy and always in a great mood and joking. And so, I think that there’s a vision that we have of a stage manager who’s a very strict timekeeper, serious, all of that. But there’s been such a shift now with check ins at the beginning of the day and closing circles and actually getting to know everybody on a personal level. And so, I think that that’s something that is really helpful in that situation to be one of the team players. And I find that often now because I have other skill sets that I’m not afraid to make an offer, that something that might be funny or I see a sight line problem or whatever it is. And that opinion is not only welcomed, but it’s encouraged and it’s like a team, which is nice. I don’t remember it being like that when I was training, but I definitely feel a bit of a shift like that. And so, I think being confident enough to stand up and use your voice I think is really important in a room.

Hope Absolutely, yeah. And do you think that ties into your relationship with the theatre company that engages you?

Ricardo I think so. I think that on top of all the usual stuff, like as a stage manager, you need to be organized and know you’re good with time and all of those things, have good paperwork, obviously. But I think that it’s the personality stuff that gets you hired and keeps them wanting to work with you. And so, like I said, those building relationships is kind of a huge part of it these days.

Hope Absolutely. And then Equity. So, a lot of our students say that one of their big questions is, should I join? When should I join? Any, any wisdom you want to share about that?

Ricardo Yeah, I mean. It’s tricky. I believe the apprenticeship program is important so that a theatre can put their trust in a Stage Manager to lead the room. That being said, there are a lot of emerging stage managers with all kinds of experience outside of equity rooms that should better be taken into account when granting access to membership. I do see those changes taking place, and I’m hopeful that will only continue to be explored. But I understand why it’s like that. But I’m glad that they’re getting paid better. When I was an apprentice, we definitely did not get paid, almost nothing. So that was a lot of work and doing a full time job at the same time was really hard. But I do think that getting those apprenticeships are really valuable because each show, like I said, teaches you something different and by the end of it you really have a good backbone to start working from. And so being able to just dive in and, and just watch everything. As a stage manager, I think that watching how every director is different, how actors take notes, what can you do to help the costume designer? What are all those things, are some things that I see some apprentices not paying attention to, but I think that that makes you so much more valuable in the room when you know what other people need and you how to do it and they don’t even know how to ask for it themselves. But if you’re able to say, I know I’m going to do this check-in, it’s going to make your life easier. I think that that is really beneficial and something to pay attention to when you’re apprenticing.

Hope And how I’d like, if you could adjust the Equity apprenticeship program for stage managers, how would you what changes would you make?

Ricardo Yeah, I don’t know. That’s tricky. Yeah, I think it’s more to do with pay scale. I just find that in my experience, the apprentice is doing just as much, if not more work than the ASM sometimes, and it just seems unfair that they’re not getting paid appropriately. And I think that theatres take advantage of that. And they are. I don’t think that’s fair, but I would definitely say they just deserve to be paid.

Hope Absolutely.

Ricardo I think that it would be really wonderful if there was some kind of magical guide that expressed a little like on your first apprenticeship, this is what you should learn. And on your second or something that like a checklist of what you should have learned by the time you come to the sixth. And I’m assuming that some theatres have that kind of thing, but I find that the theatre that I’m at and when I was trained, it was just, you’re just the other ASM, and whatever you do on the show, that’s it, there was no specific training for me. But it would be nice if there was some kind of standard. So it wasn’t just luck of the draw, which theatre you go to or how much training you’re going to get. That would be pretty wonderful.

Hope Yeah, yeah, that’s really interesting. Just the difference between, what does an apprentice mean versus an ASM, right?

Ricardo That’s, like one person’s apprenticeship at Stratford may be completely different than someone’s at Persephone Theatre or RMTC or whatever it is, but they’re all doing the same work and it would be nice if they came out of it with some of the same skill sets.

Hope Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. And then we kind of talked about this already. But the other question was just around the difference between being employed and self-employed as a stage manager. How do you view the stage manager? Do you think it makes sense to be resident or employed or.

Ricardo I think that… I see benefits on both. I think that having a stage manager who is employed by the theatre for the season is really beneficial in continuity and putting structures in place, making sure that the people being trained are getting all of the things they need. So, if there was a different stage manager for every show, they don’t really know what the apprentice did on the last show. Whereas I have a pretty good understanding of where everyone’s at and what their skills are, what they need, a little work on things like that. But at the same time, as a stage manager, you learn so much by working in a different environment. And so doing five different theatres in a season makes you so strong because you’re learning all kinds of things. So, I think that I can see benefits for both.

Hope Absolutely. Absolutely. Amazing. And then the last question is just, just thinking ahead to the future of theatre. And is there anything you feel that we should be working towards in student readiness? Any trends or changes that you hope are going to come about in theatre that we should prepare our students for?

Ricardo  Yeah, I think the biggest thing for me right now is. There’s been such a shift in what stories we are telling and, and who is telling those stories. But I don’t see the reciprocation from the audience yet. I see a lot of pushback from the audience. And it’s not easy to make change. And so, I think that the future of theatre is going to take a lot of hard work, but I think that there’s definitely an audience out there for it. It’s just how do you get them coming out? And so, yeah, I really think that community is so important. And so, in our city, it’s really felt like in the last couple of years, everyone has started to kind of intermingle more than they used to. Now, it’s like everyone is working together and team effort and we all support each other and go to each other’s shows. And I think that that is something that is changing in theatre. It’s less about me and it’s very much more about the community. And I think that that will hopefully translate into a different audience and a wider audience being able to come out and access theatre.

Hope Is Live Five still?

Ricardo Yeah. I just directed the show for Live Five, Yeah.

Hope Yeah, yeah. That’s great to hear the community. Like, I think at least on our end, like COVID did kind of bring people together in terms of sharing information and resources in a new way.

Ricardo Yeah, totally. And it just, it makes sense. Like, I think that we’re so much stronger because of it, and we all have wants of wanting more money and more space and more all the things. And so, if everybody has a little bit, we all put it together. We have so much more. So, it’s been nice.

Hope That’s great. Excellent. Anything else that that that we haven’t covered or that you would want to share to, to students or emerging theatre workers?

Ricardo Yeah, I don’t know. I guess like we kind of talked about it. I just think that whatever you can do to make your own work and try a million different things that you may not have thought you would be interested in. Like for me, I definitely thought I wanted to be an actor, and I still do act every once in a while. I love it, but I never would have in a million years thought I would be the stage manager, and here I am loving it. So, I think that, push yourself to try new things in theatre and you’ll be surprised by the things that come out of that.

Hope Well, that’s great. I love that. Yeah, I think we silo sometimes our students too early and that’s really, a really great thought.

Ricardo Yeah, well and especially actors even like, you can tell right away an actor who has worked as a stage manager even once in their university career and you’re like, I’m not your babysitter, but there are definitely actors that think you are their babysitter. And so that’s a little frustrating sometimes. So, I think that if actors can get in there and try a little of that stuff too, that they will learn a lot. It makes them be a lot better to work with, I find. Yeah.

Hope Absolutely. Some empathy.

Ricardo Yes, I think everyone should have a retail job at some point, a kitchen job at some point, just to make you a well-rounded person. Yes.