Learning Objectives

• Podcast Metrics Explained
• Making Podcast Income
• Careers, Jobs, and Pay

Chapter 10: Audience, Income, Jobs

How Many Listeners/Viewers?

First, let’s ask the question: do you really need to know how many people are listening to your podcast?

If it’s a hobby, it’s nice to know—but the number of listeners is just one metric of success. A small but engaged audience can be equally, if not more, meaningful. Measuring time spent listening often tells you more about audience engagement than downloads alone.

Beware of download numbers—they can be misleading. Downloads only measure what was delivered, not consumed, and they don’t tell you how long someone listened or when. In fact, most downloads never reach listeners’ ears. That said, if you want to impress a boss, a client, or have paid ads, you do need to pay attention to your listener numbers.

How Podcast Charts Work

Unlike the music industry, where Billboard charts rank songs and artists, podcasting has no single, authoritative “chart topper.” Instead, there are multiple charts, each measuring different metrics, which makes comparisons tricky. Only the podcast publisher knows the actual number of listeners and downloads. For everyone else, you rely on app charts, rankings, and services like Rephonic to estimate audience size.

Here’s a look at how the various podcast charts work.

Apple Podcasts

Apple Podcasts has charts like Top Shows, Top Episodes, Top Subscriber Shows, and Top Subscriber Channels. But keep in mind: these charts only measure activity within Apple Podcasts, not across other platforms or the web. The rankings reflect popularity at the moment, based on new followers and listeners, rather than downloads.

There are separate charts in Apple Podcasts for each country.

Apple also curates its New and Noteworthy lists and offers a Top Series chart for narrative shows meant to be listened to in order. For channels offering paid subscriptions, Apple Podcasts Connect provides more granular reports, including a unique count of listeners per channel.

Apple Podcast Analytics

To find your show’s numbers in Apple Podcasts, log into your Apple Podcast Connect account, open Analytics, select an episode, and look for the graph showing listeners over time.

Spotify calls this metric “episode performance.” In Spotify for Podcasters, you’ll see data for the past 60 days, including:

 

Number of followers – total number of people following your show.
Number of listeners – total number of people who listened to your show.
Engaged listeners – total number of people who listened for at least 20 minutes or 40% of your episode.
Plays – total number of times the Play button was pressed. Note: Spotify counts every press, so stopping and restarting will register as another play. This can make your total plays appear high even if your listener count is low.
Top countries/regions – unique devices per country or region.
Top cities – total number of devices per city.

Bumper, a podcast growth agency, provides guidance on how to combine audio and video analytics from different platforms.

Spotify Charts

Spotify updates its podcast charts daily, measuring unique streams—listens longer than 60 seconds. Repeat plays in a single day only count once.

Its Trending Chart highlights shows gaining popularity quickly, reflecting rising stars and hot topics. Spotify also offers charts by genre and country, but again, only measures activity on its platform.

YouTube Podcasts

YouTube podcasts reach over 1 billion active viewers (Edison Research), yet stats from YouTube won’t appear on your hosting platform. The YouTube Top Podcast Chart lists the top 100 shows in the U.S., updated weekly, based on total listen time. This means a single person listening to a multi-hour show could rank higher than multiple people listening to a shorter show.

Categories include money, business, football, popular, Spanish, and live now. For more on how YouTube charts work, see James Cridland on Podnews.

Chart-Topping Confusion

But wait, there’s more.

Every hosting service has its own analytics, and research companies maintain separate rankers, leading to differences in methodology. Nick Quah, a podcast analyst, told The Verge, “chart-topping doesn’t mean what most people think it means.… It just says you had a lot of new interactions one given week.” Comparing charts can be tricky because some emphasize weekly activity while others focus on monthly downloads.

What Does Download Success Really Mean ?

Downloads have long been a way to measure podcast success, especially for advertising purposes, and are tracked via compliance programs by the Interactive Advertising Bureau (IAB). However, downloads are not the only—or always the most meaningful—metric.

Can You Make Money With Podcasts?

Podcasts do make money — very big money for a select few and absolutely nothing for most creators. That’s absolutely fine if your podcast is a hobby and a labor of love, but there are some ways to make a few bucks for production expenses.

Ad experts say the future for podcast advertising will involve several different models  – ad-free, subscription-based, crowdfunding and paywalls.

Podcast Advertising Sees Growth & Influence

In 2025 podcast advertising rates are climbing as global listening rises. It’s a very engaged audience according to Edison Research, “74% of podcast listeners have taken action after hearing a podcast ad, whether by visiting a website or purchasing a product.” U.S. podcast ad revenue is projected to grow to $2.3 billion in 2025 and $3 billion by 2029.

Ad placement matters: pre-roll at the beginning, mid-roll during the episode, and post-roll at the end, which is least expensive. The standard is CPM—Cost Per Mille, or cost per thousand downloads. Rates range from $15–$50 for 15–30 second ads and $25–$100 for 30–60 second ads.

 

Studies by MAGNA and Spotify suggest podcast ads are more effective than TV ads, and host-read ads perform best because listeners trust hosts. “The reason they’ve been successful is their deep connection to listeners,” marketing executive David Raphael told Vulture magazine. He says one focus group asked listeners why they went to hotels.com. “They said, ‘Because Ira Glass told me to.’

Someone completely new to podcasting should concentrate first on producing a really good podcast. Make some adjustments and seek out reviews before considering how to build revenue streams.

Donation Models – Patreon & Substack

Fans can pay support creators directly on subscription platforms such as Patreon and its newer competitor, Substack. They take about a 10% cut from creators’ earnings. Podcasting is the top-earning category on Patreon, with $472 million earned from 6.7 million paid memberships last year.

Top earners like Joe Budden are outliers—his 2025 subscription revenue is expected to exceed $12 million. These platforms are attractive because podcasters can focus on their financial independence and control of intellectual property.

You can see the top 1000 Patreon creators each month.

The New York Times reports that 70,000 paid subscribers contribute $5 to $50 per month. Since most podcasters earn nowhere near that amount, Patreon chief executive Jack Conte told the Times, “Joe is in a league of his own.”

CBS News correspondent David Pogue talked with podcasters and artists who earn income from subscribing patrons.

Patreon now offers live streaming, community features, and partnerships with Sony and Wondery. Substack also provides subscriber-based revenue, with a $20 million fund to attract podcasters from other platforms.

Show Me the Money

Patreon, Substack, Twitch, and Spotify illustrate the variety of ways podcasters can turn passion into income. While top creators earn eye-popping sums, even modest earnings can cover production costs, support growth, and provide a foundation for future opportunities.

In an interview with Business Insider, three podcasters shared their Patreon income: Therapy for Black Girls earned $2,000 per month; Wondery’s RedHanded brought in $59,000; and The Yard raked in an astonishing $242,000 monthly.

For independent podcasters, income is often smaller but still meaningful. Tamar Avishai, creator of The Lonely Palette, encourages creators to move past the hesitation of asking for support. In her article for The Bello Collective, she explains how to maximize Patreon contributions. With 175 patrons giving at various levels, she earns over $1,000 per episode. While most independents don’t make huge sums, they gain other rewards—career redirection, skill-building, and creative growth.

Substack offers a similar model, allowing subscribers to follow and support favorite creators. The platform recently launched a $20 million fund to entice podcasters away from Patreon and other services, promoting a subscription-based approach to revenue.

Live-streaming platforms like Twitch, which started in the niche community of video gamers, is emerging as another potential goldmine for podcast income. Shows like Lemonade Stand, which covers business, tech, and politics, earn over $58K per month from 16,000 subscribers, reaching predominantly Gen Z audiences. Twitch’s live format allows creators to engage directly with their communities, building loyalty and recurring revenue.

As Bloomberg’s Ashley Carman says, the future of podcasting could come from Twitch and success on the streaming platform – “one that is particularly popular with young video-game fans – could eventually prove to be a podcasting goldmine.”

Meanwhile, the Spotify Partner Program offers creators a 50% share of revenue from ads monetized on the platform. To qualify, podcasters must have published at least 12 episodes and logged 10,000 consumption hours on Spotify in the previous 30 days. This program allows both large and smaller creators to earn from streams, expanding opportunities beyond traditional ad deals.

The New York Times reports that Spotify has paid over one million dollars with a 40% increase in video consumption since the launch in January.

Grants or Accelerators

Independent podcasts can also seek grants, accelerator programs, or fellowships. These typically require a project proposal, budget, timeline, and application. A grant is a funding award made to a person or organization to fund a project that is not paid back. There is a competitive application process with specific requirements.

To find funding sources look online, at private foundations, at government agencies especially at the local level like arts organizations. In my home base of Washington, DC grant funding is available from Humanities DC to fund history, culture, relationships, and topics that shape the community. There are similar organizations elsewhere.

Careers in Podcasting

Podcasts are produced by traditional media, digital startups, government agencies, religious organizations, sports franchises, authors, and educational institutions. This diversity creates roles for hosts, reporters, producers, editors, scriptwriters, marketers, and sound engineers. Some individuals manage multiple roles, which can be rewarding—or overwhelming.

All of these organizations need to hire hosts, reporters, producers, scriptwriters, artists, marketers, and sound engineers. Some people can do it all or know how to outsource and hire others. You might find such an opportunity.

However, job seekers should also be aware of layoffs in major podcast companies, including NPR, Wondery, iHeart Media, and Spotify. Reasons include advertising declines, subscription shifts, AI automation, and cost-cutting measures.

TO FIND A PODCAST JOB

NEWSLETTERS: Subscribe to industry newsletters such as Podnews by James Cridland for podjobs.net and Hot Pod by Nick Quah. Look carefully at job descriptions in ads and make sure to develop these skill sets.

TOP PUBLISHERS: Look at podcast rankers for top publishers and contact those outlets, Edison also has one.

AUDIO JOURNALISM PROFESSIONAL & TRADE PUBLICATIONS AND OUTLETS: 

• Corporation for Public Broadcasting Jobline.
• Indeed.com, look under Journalism.
• Journalismjobs.com.
• JournalismNext.com.
• Mediabistro.com.

PAID MEMBERSHIP ORGANIZATIONS:

• AIRmedia.org is a network of audio industry professionals in public broadcasting, journalism, podcasting and narrative storytelling; jobs and training are available via membership with discounts for students.
• National Association of Asian Journalists is a professional organization with reduced fees for students.
• National Association of Black Journalists is a professional organization with reduced fees for students.
• National Association of Hispanic Journalists is a professional organization with reduced fees for students.
• National Association of LBGTQ+ Journalists is a professional organization with reduced fees for students.
• RTDNA.com (Radio-Television Digital News Association) is a professional organization with reduced fees for students.
• Online News Association is a professional organization of digital media professionals.
• Professional Journalism Organizations – an extensive list from the American Media Institute.  Several offer job opportunities with paid memberships.

INTERNSHIPS: Spotify Internships, Ask local radio stations, look online for podcast production companies such as LWC Studios, colleges & universities.

SOCIAL MEDIA: In your own community, look for freelancers on a Facebook group of local podcasters.

Podcast Job Titles

Job titles are determined by the employer and by the style of storytelling — nonfiction vs fiction or narratives, dramas, interviews, and such. Someone with the job title of producer in one workplace may be called a story editor elsewhere and it’s not uncommon for one or two people to do multiple jobs. That can be fulfilling or frustrating depending upon your workload.

What Does a Producer Do?

Typically the producer oversees the management of a show from concept to writing scripts, scheduling guests, doing interviews, and hiring any contractors needed for editing, distribution, or promotion. Job duties can differ widely depending on the size of the employer and the style of the podcast

What Does An Editor Do?

An editor could be involved in story structure or editing audio or both.

Catherine St. Louis is senior editor of podcasts at Neon Hum. In episode 10 of “Servant of Pod with Nick Quah,” she talks about creating memorable podcast moments, how she became a story editor and her love of deconstructing story structure., “I think a good podcast does three things – it educates, it enrages, it entertains,” she said.

St. Louis says part of the problem is that most people don’t understand what it means to be an editor. She says editors are made and that diversity is vital. “I wish we took more young people of color, women, and guided them so that they became editors. …I think we have to demystify that editors are somebody who are older or who are established.”

St. Louis also talks about how she approaches being a story editor on podcasts such as This Land by Crooked Media and Murder on the Towpath by Luminary — both are longer form, narrative non-fiction podcasts that have different storytelling techniques than audio dramas or interview podcasts.

Mentoring & Early Career Opportunities

What’s the Income for Top Podcasters?

Although it’s hard to know revenue unless it’s self-reported, top podcasts like The New York Times’ The Daily, earn more than $1 million in revenue.

Freelance Work Rates

It’s a valid question whether you can turn your passion project podcast into a paid professional gig. Salaries for podcast jobs as producers, editors, production assistants, writers, and website creators fluctuate depending upon the employer, show format, and market location.

Salaries vary depending upon whether you are on staff for a media company or as a freelancer. Some companies pay by the hour, others by the day or project. You also need to pay close attention to job titles because what one employer calls a production assistant job might be labeled as an associate producer job at another, so be sure you are clear on defining the role.

Managers and hosts earn the most according to a survey by ZipRecruiter, which offers a free tool to type in the name of a city to find average salaries.

Freelancers will find one particularly helpful resource in AIR – the Association of Independents in Radio. This network of audio industry professionals – podcasters, journalists, story editors, audio producers, documentarians, engineers, sound designers and media entrepreneurs crosses 47 states and 30 countries. They publish a Code of Fair Practices for working with audio professionals as well as AIR Rate Guides for services. A beginning production assistant could have a day rate of $330 while a senior producer’s day rate could be $570.

In his newsletter, The Audio Insurgent, podcast creator and strategist Eric Nuzum says the most important thing for podcast creators is “knowing how to build a production budget.” He offers sage advice on people costs for creating production budgets with staff and collaborators and on additional costs like hiring freelancers and marketing.